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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 3:10:44 GMT
I stumbled across a few words in a documentary on tiny houses that smelled promising, and chased it down to a site in Portland Oregon. They aren't advertising themselves as a watersteading site, but they are on a river, and do allow (even encourage?) tiny houses like i was going to make as a shantyboat. I now strenuously suggest you do not build a shantyboat ( as the word is usually understood), but putting a tiny house on a "real" boat hull (with all the nautical abilities and accomodations and life supporting features of a "real" hull) may be possible at the "Green Anchors" site. And i liked the totally appropriate play on the title of the old tv series. I am not affiliated with shantyboatliving.com but i suggest you spend a week reading that site before you go build and launch your river- or bay-stead. Some people cannot build anything, they lack the masochistic streak it takes to figure out what to do and to keep working when everything goes into the loo. One of the good points of that incubator site is they have skilled (hobbyist) people on call and (professional) people who can be hired (at least to get you thru the rough spots). There's also a maker space in Portland for making details of your build, (prolly several spaces). I am not in Portland, i found info in a video and online.
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Post by thebastidge on Dec 15, 2016 20:41:38 GMT
So we had a serious problem in the last few years on the Willamette especially, but also on the Columbia, of shanty boat dwellers really screwing up the river, and the shoreline facilities. Dumping sewage and other waste into the river, becoming hazards to navigation, crime (including but not limited to prostitution and drugs, also crimes that affect other people like theft, robbery, assault, intimidation, vandalism etc.)
People didn't title or register their boats, so they weren't on the hook when they sank at the docks, nobody could assess them use fees. They were fire hazards to other boaters.
So on the plus side, yes, you can live on the river pretty much full time, fairly cheaply (de-masted sail boats with small engines can be had for a few hundred dollars) relatively long term, if you're willing to accept the limitations of the lifestyle. For a slightly more responsible person who can hold a job and follow basic rules of neighborly courtesy and hygiene, there are tons of options, and you really won't be hassled by the man.
There are a large number of floating home, live-aboard, and boathouse moorage options in this area as well. A floating home can be had for anywhere between $60k - half a million. It's a broad range. Live-aboards vary widely as well, depending on how much space you think you need. SA married couple we met at our last marina lived aboard their 25' sailboat in an uncovered open slip. Nothing more than an electrical pedestal and potable water hookup at the slip, pump-out station at the end of the dock, and a restroom/shower up the ramp at the parking lot. They maintained a car in addition to the boat, and paid monthly slip fees of about $175 (plus metered electrical usage). It's a very cheap lifestyle if sailing is your main recreation and you don't need much space. They had both saved up for several years and took a year plus off to do this, but were running out of resources at the time, and had started discussing going back to work.
At my yacht club, we have covered moorage for our 27' cabin cruiser power boat. They have a pump-out, showers in the club house, cooking facilities for special occasions in the club house, and a fuel dock that is barely above land prices. No sailboats in our club. Boathouse slips are available (charge by the foot in width, so actually slightly cheaper than our covered slip. Club rules say you can overnight, but not live at the club, with a small number of spots available for full time residents (they call it "fire watch"). Right now we only have one person using one of the 5 slots for fire watch. So if we were to drastically downsize, we could live on our power boat in a boat house for under $200 a month (not accounting for about $2k in fees to join, the cost of the boat, and cost of the boathouse- sunk costs for tow of three but we don't have a boathouse yet) plus metered electricity, gas for the boat, and a vehicle to get to and from the marina.
Shanty boat is not the only way to go cheap if you can really be cool with down sizing.
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Post by jeff on Dec 15, 2016 22:29:59 GMT
Realistically, that they had space for builders to diy, is Kathy's point.
Even my smallest would probably take up too much of their space to be affordable.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 5:22:31 GMT
thebastidge , i was talking about incubator sites here in the incubator thread, and that one spot i wrote about does look like a place where people can work on getting onto the water, while your post was about where and how one can live after one is on the water. Your post is valuable, i did "like" it.
I cannot speak for others, but my biggest issue is the distance to the water, and how to optimally get a floating living space from here to the water. Living spaces tend to be large compared to the space allowed for a car on the highways, and most boat ramps aren't made to handle living spaces (wide beams or long keels). And weight is a factor, a 16x32 foot footprint on the water is surely transportable overland only by a commercial rig.
An incubator site solves the transport issues, the boat construction issues in a residential area, and it would hopefully be a place specialised boat-building tools and knowledge can be found.
I still have the notion that a floating incubator site would be cheaper than renting acres of land, as well as be more in the spirit of seasteading. However, a small land site is still useful, for a place to receive snailmail and packages, a place to wait out a storm before boating out, a place to hand off phone and internet radio to a local floating incubator site.
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Post by bobdohse on Dec 18, 2016 17:06:22 GMT
Although seasteading implies ocean living ...
... most of the "incubator" projects I would personally be interested in doing could easily be done on any inland lake ...
... and desalination would be one less problem to solve.
It would be nice to find such a place ... where member-assisted, cooperative experiential learning was one of the objectives.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 18:13:12 GMT
Bob, i certainly agree, with the option to get the living space (lakestead?) to the ocean somehow. But here, on the local lake (~10 miles from me) they prohibit liveaboards, and seem to have shut down the only marina that had grandfathered in liveaboards (i have not been out there to verify in the last 4 yrs, but they were closing down back then, and most of their repair shop has landed in the metal recycler recently). There's a couple huge luxury liveaboard barges, but they are moored to private land, aren't lived in, and are for sale (must be moved - no place on lake to move them to).
The lake approach solves some issues of the open ocean, bays, and rivers, issues i think are also solved in the small waterways of the Mississippi River delta. The many islands of the delta also break up line-of-sight and noise over distances. Even the salinity is now on the list of issues to correct by the gov projects down there, by water flow control, barrier island re-creation, old oil canal blockages, and river diversion programs. And a mile from anywhere you can park a car, there's nobody living, no nimby, and no one standing around next door watching you. The intracoastal waterway runs thru it, there's many routes to the ocean on three sides, there's established boat/ship build/repair/supply places, there's the tourist traps, and there's the 30ft dikes to hide behind if all else fails.
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Post by thebastidge on Dec 19, 2016 21:25:33 GMT
Well, there's lots of space around here to build, experiment, and launch. There's pretty much no place in the developed world where you can do all that while broadcasting "F Captialism and F the Man." It costs money to build a boat or a floating living space. It costs money to have the space to do it too. It doesn't have to cost a LOT. Every time I pass the Christensen Yacht construction ways that are overgrown on the Columbia, with tons of unused boat building capacity lying fallow, I wonder "why don't they sub-let some of those ways?" Paying taxes on the riverfront acreage can't be cheap, and it's a lost revenue opportunity on top of that.
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Post by thebastidge on Dec 19, 2016 21:25:44 GMT
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Post by jeff on Dec 19, 2016 22:02:15 GMT
There is a Google add-on and an online viewer for KML and KMZ files... KML, KMZ Viewer with Drive KML, KMZ Viewer is a tool that views the .kml, .kmz (Zipped KML format) file in your browser. Free online tool to view KML, KMZ files from the web on a Google map. You can open KML, KMZ files from URL, Google Drive or from your computer. Provides connect with Google Drive. You can directly open a KML file from Google Drive. Enter a KML, KMZ URL below to view it. kmlviewer.nsspot.net/
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 0:15:27 GMT
I've never been able to launch Google Earth or any kmz files here.
I know of some boat launching ways that have been idle since the end of WW2. Just rotting away. In the last 20 years the buildings were knocked down and the land used for sewage processing, the posts which held up the slide rails are still out in the water tho. Business plus the legal system plus tax code is funny, but i am sure you know that better than i do.
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